The subject is identified by pastor jordan as "almost a dangerous subject" in the very first minute, indicating the Pastor Jordan knew it would be controversial and could be (almost) dangerous. It should come as no surprise then, that some might conclude that the subject is dangerous, particularly to young believers and especially to those leaning toward Open View Theology.

‘Frankly, and I know it is considered heresy in some places’ is another quote which makes it clear the Pastor Jordan understands he is in controversial territory and that disagreement can be expected.

Then, Pastor Richard Jordan says "In church history, there have been all kinds of heresies, the Nestorians....etc.etc" again suggesting that the speaker understands he is in tenuous territory, near heresy.

"Can you grasp some of that in your mind without becoming a heretic?"

If that is a legitimate question, and I believe it is, then this is a teaching inappropriate at best and dangerous at worst.

"If I was getting that across to you, you couldn’t be looking at me that blank." is not what you want to say at the conclusion of a message, I can assure you. Listen to this again....apparently the speaker’s audience was dumbfounded by this message. Perhaps if you turn up your tape player you can hear chins hitting the floor.

Because He has depended upon the education that the Father gave him......Pastor Jordan draws to a conclusion with this statement...."He is living in total dependence today, even now, in what God the Father communicated to Him." This statement, in my opinion, makes Christ into a lesser God. And if Christ is now in the same dependent condition as described by the speaker relating to Christ’s earthly ministry when Christ lacked the attributes of God, is the speaker now presenting a Christ who still lacks the attributes of God? At this point, this message has become even more dangerous.

Ep 1.17 knowledge of him, his calling etc. v20 which he wrought in Christ when he raised him

Should you visit us here, be certain to leave yourself time to visit the...

More than 800,000 square feet under roof...

State of the art...

or simply artful...

Below you see Carol with the famous Camel...

And here is the Stealth bomber...

We had not been to the Air Force Museum in ten years and were amazed at the improvements...

And with gas so expensive it was nice to see so much so close to home.

One day soon I will be in heavenly places... without the suit...

You couldn't get either Carol or me to fly in one of these puppies...

We would feel comfortable in something slightly larger...

We are thankful to those brave Americans who served in the U.S. Air Force to protect our freedoms and liberties.

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mid-Acts-Pauline Dispensational Bible Studies

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The Prince And The Pauper and the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ
BY TERENCE D MCLEAN

      It was in 1881 that Mark Twain wrote the classic story of The Prince And The Pauper; and it was in 1881 that Westcott and Hort published the corrupt English Revised Version of the Bible.  In Twain’s story, an unwanted and impoverished child, the Pauper of the story, trades places with the soon-to-be king, the Prince of the story.
          In the Westcott-Hort translation, He who thought it not robbery to be equal with God in the King James Bible, forsakes His own deity by “emptying” Himself.”
The King James Bible does not teach an “emptied out” Christ, but rather that our Lord took the position of a pauper, similar to the Prince in Twain’s tale.
         While new translations based upon the Westcott-Hort 1881 revision undermine the deity of Christ in Philippians 2:6-8 as you see here in the New American Standard:
“Who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, talking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.”...you cannot teach a lesser or “emptied out” Jesus from your King James Bible:
          “But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
Twain’s Prince humbled himself to be a pauper; and, in so doing, the Prince learned of the horrible conditions of the poor. At the same time, the Pauper fared sumptuously, having taken the position of the Prince.
          As you read Mark Twain’s endearing story, part of the charm is that you never forget that the Pauper has taken the position of the Prince, but that the Pauper is not the Prince. Likewise, you read of the Prince, humbled, having taken the position of the Pauper; yet you know that he is the Prince and can exercise his position as Prince whenever he would so choose.
          The teaching that Christ “emptied himself” and “laid aside the free and independent exercise of all of His attributes as God” is known as Kenotic Theology: liberal at best, and heretical at worst.
          When a leading Mid-Acts Bible teacher puts words in our Lord’s mouth (thus violating the express prohibition about adding to God’s word) and (mis)quotes our Lord as saying “I won’t use my power, my ability as God,” we have a serious situation.
Blasphemy? Perhaps. Bad teaching? Unquestionably. A wrong direction for the grace movement? Most certainly.
          Shortly before America’s story-teller wrote The Prince And The Pauper, Gottfried Thomasious (1802-1875), a German rationalist and Lutheran Theologian, was teaching the error of an “emptied out” Jesus. The Westcott-Hort translation would be in agreement with this liberal error of an “emptied out” Christ, wrongly translating the Greek word “kenosis” as “emptied” in opposition to the King James’ correct translation, which is that Christ “humbled” himself.
          Were Twain’s Prince to have amnesia, not knowing that he was the Prince, and were he to live out his life as the Pauper, you would have something equivalent to what the grace movement is being asked (by it’s leadership) to believe about the Lord Jesus Christ. Then, after the Prince dies, never having his memory restored, his amnesia continues even into the afterlife, requiring input from Mark Twain.
          Similarly, some notable Mid-Acts grace teachers would have you believe that Christ, to use their words, “had a time of limited understanding and limited knowledge.” These leaders of the Mid-Acts grace movement would have you believe that Jesus Christ lacks omniscience to this very day and still depends upon updates from the Father.
          Obviously, it would be in the Pauper’s best interest to keep the Prince ignorant of who he really was. In like manner, it is not surprising to find liberal Bible expositors who would exalt themselves at the expense of their Saviour; but it is very sad to find such selfish arrogance in the grace camp.
          We are now seeing grace believers scurrying about, searching out the verses about Jesus Christ which the cults use to undermine His deity, in an attempt to rob Him of the attributes of God. Not surprisingly, those same grace believers put themselves into 1 Tim. 3:16 in the place of Christ: “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” It is common that those who denigrate Christ, exalt themselves. (Romans 1:25 “Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.”)
          Well, what of those verses dredged up by Mid-Acts grace believers (as well as Jehovah Witnesses, Unitarians, Liberals and suchlike) to attack the deity of Jesus Christ? If there were not verses that could be twisted to teach Christ as a lesser god (or not God at all) we would not have the problems with cults that we do. For grace believers to be using those same verses in the same manner as the cults, to lessen the person of our Saviour Jesus Christ, used to be unthinkable but is now commonplace.
          Are we willing to say Christ has none of the attributes of God because He asks questions? (Matthew 20:21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? Mark 10:51 What wilt thou that I should do unto thee? Luke 8:45 Who touched me?)
Are we willing to say Christ has none of the attributes of God because he takes on human attributes? (Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Mark 6:38 How many loaves have ye? go and see. Luke 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking;)
          When some leading Mid-Acts grace teachers put forth that “He (Christ) made a choice, to lay aside the independent exercise of all of His deity attributes”, do we search the scriptures to see if that is true, or, do we say “Amen” because to question what some people teach is not allowed and will result in being shunned and smeared by the Grace Gestapo?
Imagine that a leader in the supposed King James-believing grace movement would have the Lord Jesus say things that Christ never said, and then that same teacher would base his subsequent wrong teachings on statements blasphemously jammed into our Lord’s mouth. What then?
          Here are the exact words that a leading Mid-Acts grace teacher attributes to Jesus Christ: “And He said, ‘I wont use my power, my ability as God.’” And so, wrong teachings about the deity of Christ based upon lies about what Christ said, and accepting those lies has becoming a test of fellowship. That is more than sad: that is dangerous.
          Of course, Christ never said any such thing. No real King James believer would teach by treating the Lord as a ventriloquist’s dummy, putting words in His mouth. But there are King James pretenders who think nothing of it. These words are blasphemously put into the mouth of the Lord by certain Mid-Acts teachers who pretend to be King James believers, desperate to teach the “emptied out” Jesus of Westcott-Hort, desperate to scratch itching ears, desperate to show the Athenians some new thing.
          Because the “emptied out” Jesus, who did not even know He was the Son of God until age 30 when the Father told Him, has been taught openly and exported around our movement, open rebuttal should be expected, as Romans 16:17 demands. (Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.)
          Meanwhile, the personal attacks and cover-up that have followed are not pretty.
          “Jesus Is Jehovah” teaching tapes are offered as a smoke screen; but the question was never “Is Jesus Jehovah?” but rather “When did Christ learn about the mystery?” Paul provides the answer by describing Christ as (Col. 2:9) ...”all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” And the Godhead that includes Christ put the mystery in place before the foundation of the world, as any Mid-Acts dispensationalist knows.
          Because of the coverup, the question becomes a bit more complicated as now we must see past the smoke and mirrors. We must work our way past the circled wagons, and see the simple truth for what it is.
Instead of Grace Believers rallying around 2 Tim. 2:15 (Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.), now the test of fellowship is Mark 13:32 (But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.)
          Obviously, in Mark 13:32 Jesus is speaking as a man, or so the verse says. Jesus is speaking as the Son, or so the verse says. Jesus is speaking as the Pauper, not as the Prince; but unlike Twain’s fictional characters, Jesus is both Prince and Pauper simultaneously.
          This understanding of the verse is made clear two verses later in Mark 13:34: “For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.”  (By the way, has anyone noticed Mark 13:32 has nothing to do with when Christ learned the revelation of the mystery? Trotting out this verse to defend a message about Christ not knowing the revelation of the mystery, then, must be seen for what it is: a frontal attack on the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ).
          In this particular context. At other times we see His attributes as God clearly portrayed as in the ten examples which follow:
1. There is only one God: Isaiah 43:10, 44:8, 45:21.
Jesus is God: Isaiah 9:6, Matthew 1:23, John 1:1, 14, 20:28.
2. Only God is to be worshiped: Exodus 20:2-6, 34:14, Matthew 4:10.
Jesus is worshiped: Matthew 2:2, 11, 14:33, 15:25, Luke 24:52, John 5:23.
3. Only God is to be glorified Isaiah 12:8, 18:11, Jeremiah 13:15, Matthew 5:16.
Jesus is given glory: John 1:1-14, 17:5.
4. God is the creator: Genesis 1:1, Psalms 8:1-3, 102:24-25, Isaiah 44:21.
Jesus is the creator: John 1:3, 14.
5. God is the only Saviour: Isaiah 43:3, 11, 45:21, Luke 1:46-17, Titus 3:3-4 Jude 25.
Jesus is Saviour: Luke 2:11.
6. Only God can forgive sins: Isaiah 1:18, 43:25.
Jesus forgives sins: Matthew 9:2-6, Mark 2:5-7.
7. God shed His blood: Acts 20:28.
Jesus shed God’s blood: Revelation 1:5.
8. God was pierced: Zechariah 12:4, 10.
Jesus was pierced: John 19:37.
9. God was tempted by Israel: Exodus 17:2.
Jesus was tempted by Israel: I Corinthians 10:9.
10. God raised Christ from the dead: Galatians 1:1.
The Holy Spirit raised Christ from the dead: Romans 8:11.
Christ raised Himself from the dead: John 2:19, 10:17-18.
          How dare a Mid-Acts teacher who masquerades himself as a King James man say that Christ “laid aside all his attributes as God.”? (Does such a man instruct his Sunday School teachers to tell the little children in his church that they must tell the kids that Jesus had none of the attributes of God in the gospels?)
          To sacrifice Christ’s deity on the altar of His humanity would always be a wrong thing; but to do so because of a desire to be as the Athenians, (“either to tell, or to hear some new thing”) is both desperate and irresponsible. Now, rather than going about (Eph. 3:9)”to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery”, those in leadership would have us choosing up sides over the deity of Christ.
          Just as the Prince took the position of Pauper, Christ lived as a man in submission to God the Father and at the exact same time (Col. 1:19) “... it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell”; (Luke 10:22) “All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.” Christ never was devoid of His attributes of God, just as Twain’s Prince never ceased to be the Prince.
          If Christ knew only what God the Father told him, as some grace teachers say, how did Christ (Matthew 13:35) “utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world...?”
          In 1881, Westcott and Hort knew exactly what they were doing when they attacked the deity of Christ by teaching an “emptied out” Christ. Even if we give today’s Mid-Acts dispensational deity-attackers the benefit of the doubt, their harmful effect is the same. If Christ laid aside all the attributes of deity in His earthly ministry, then what verses do we have to teach Christ’s deity to Atheists or Jehovah Witnesses?
          On one side of the hypostatic union, Christ is (Colossians 2:9) “the fullness of the godhead bodily”, and on the other side Christ is (Luke 7:8) “a man set under authority.”
We see (Luke 7:34) “The Son of man is come eating and drinking;” and 14 verses later Christ does what only God can do (Luke 7:48) “And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.”
          As the Pauper, you might say that Christ learned about living as impoverished humanity (Luke 2:52) “And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man” and (Hebrews 5:8) “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;” but Christ’s attributes as God should not be questioned.
          As the Prince, Christ was reading scripture: (Luke 4:18-19) “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.”
          Christ knew where to close the book (Luke 4:20-21) “And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
          We all know the reason Christ did not finish the reading in Isaiah. The reason He closed the book on a comma in Isaiah 61 is because Jesus already knew the revelation of the mystery. Christ had known the revelation of the mystery from before the foundation of the world; and so He knew that Luke 4 would not be the time for the fulfillment of the rest of the verse in Isaiah 61: “and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;”
          Had Christ not known the revelation of the mystery, there would have been no reason for Him to interrupt His reading of the prophetic program.
          Mark Twain told a story of a Prince and a Pauper who exchanged places. The Bible presents Christ as both Prince and Pauper, simultaneously, fully God while fully man. Mark Twain never did accept Jesus Christ as who He is, fully God and fully man; and now there are grace teachers who would lead us into the error of Westcott and Hort’s liberal infidelity, teaching an “emptied out” Jesus to the grace movement.
          It is both incredible and terribly wrong to teach that Jesus Christ did not know he was the Son of God until the Father told Him from heaven (Luke 3:22) when a voice came from heaven, which said, “Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.” Christ already knew He was the Son of God (Luke 2:49) “wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?”
          Please allow me to be the first to forgive those who have taught us wrongly, yet let us all continue to require repudiation of this harmful doctrine.
Please allow me to be the first to forgive those who made this personal, yet let us all continue to believe the deity of Christ (Hebrews 13:8) “the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever,” and let us clearly reject an “emptied out” Jesus.
          Please allow me to be the first to tell you that this is a rift that could easily be remedied if the teachers involved would simply recant. Are they so prideful that they require we treat them as if they were infallible? Are they above scrutiny?
We must return to the King James Bible, God’s perfectly preserved word.
          We must not allow our leaders to base teachings upon Wescott-Hort Greek error.
          We must renounce the teaching that Christ set aside all his deity attributes.
(We must also reject the racist dogma taught about Shem, Ham and Japeth.)
        We must get back on track, that souls would be saved and saints edified, that all men would see what is the fellowship of the mystery, and that Christ would be glorified rather than denigrated.
          Mark Twain wrote fiction; we traffic in eternal truth.
          The Prince and the Pauper is just a story; the deity of Christ is the central doctrine of our faith.
          We must not value 'getting along' more than we value Christ’s deity. The King James Mid-Acts Dispensational Movement will not survive if its leadership teaches either racist dogma or a Christ without the attributes of God and it is currently teaching both. Do you care enough to call for a halt?

Let’s clear the air once and for all.

Hear what Pastor C. Richard Jordan has to say about Christ giving up all His deity attributes.

Hear Terence D. McLean answer that Christ did not surrender all His deity in the gospels and hear the answer to such verses as Mark 13:32.

Hear Pastor C. Richard Jordan teach what he believes about racial prophecy.

Hear Terence D. McLean refute what he believes to be ignorant racist dogma.

Anytime, Anywhere

We propose an all day meeting, with enough notice that everyone who wants to can attend. We willpay for the expenses of the meeting at a site Pastor Jordan is welcome to select (within reason), and at a time mutually agreeable. Our only stipulations are that nothing be done in secret, so secret meetings behind closed doors (as Alex Kurz suggested), but out in the open with cameras and tape recorders running.

We will provide audio tapes and transcripts of Pastor Jordan’s heretical message entitled "When Did Christ Learn The Mystery?" Finally, we will also provide the audio tapes of the Grace School of the Bible classes taught by Pastor Jordan in which Jordan teaches racism and bible doctrine.

Do not allow Pastor Jordan to hide behind a King James Bible which he clearly does not believe. Do not allow Pastor Jordan to get away with obfuscating his liberal agenda. Do not allow Pastor Jordan to get away with introducing heresy into the grace movement.

Let’s get this out in the open once and for all so that Pastor Jordan can get back to his shopping at the mall. Let’s get this settled so the grace movement can discard Pastor Jordan into the scrap heap of liberal heresy and return to fidelity to the King James Bible.

Have Pastor Jordan give us a call at 1-937-374-1769. We have called him several times and he never returns our calls.

Have Pastor Jordan drop me a note at Box 87, Alpha Oh, 45301. We sent four letters to him which he failed to answer.

Thank you.

Romans 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Please remember, the genesis of this controversy is the speaker and his thought police....the rest of us were doing just fine without the speaker raising issues that the speaker himself identifies as things that you may not be able to grasp without becoming heretics.

We began our trip to Western North Carolina at America's largest home, the Biltmore House in Asheville North Carolina.  One cannot help but wonder what a believer might have done with the money the Vanderbilt family spent of itself and this 250 room mansion on 8000 acres.

Black-eyed Susans and the Calico flower were just a small part of what we enjoyed seeing at the Biltmore Gardens and we also visited the University of North Carolina Arboretum


Apparently Sis. Carol and these flowers don't like each other as you see them sticking their tongues out at each other below.

An amazing thing happened when we returned to Mayberry RFD:  we had gone back in time to when everything was black and white....

And speaking of Black & White, here is Sheriff Andy and Barney's...

While in Mayberry (Mt. Airy) we stopped by Floyd the Barger, but he couldn't do anything for me...


We experienced a great deal of fog:


The gardens were gorgeous...

but we most enjoyed Sandburg's home and reading what he thought about his own writing:

By the way, it is not the camera that takes great pictures, it is Carol that takes great pictures.